His youthful vigour
Considering the fact that I am coming from what I will call my last public event this year and possible last public event in other places, before I retire, may be that is a clue that I enjoy being among young people. As I said at the launch of President Jonathan’s Bring Back the Book event, that was the greatest Christmas and New Year present that I could have dreamt of; to find myself among, and I meant very genuinely among the youth and interacting with them, maybe that is the only secret. I am speculating because I really don’t know. I am not even aware I am looking young. I don’t feel young at all.
The public apology tendered by Yakubu Gowon during Soyinka’s 70th birthday
Oh! In fact that apology wasn’t necessary because we have reconciled long before then. We met in events in United States, we met in the lobby of hotel at one time and of course he came to my birthday. The point is that, it’s virtually impossible for me to hold it personally. The only thing that was bitter, and I must be honest with you, was the lie against me while I was locked away and I think it was not the fact of being locked away. I was put in a totally impossible position, while the most unbelievable fabrications were being published about me, including a confessional statement which did not exist, which never took place. Forgiven is even a wrong word, I have no problem finding myself reconciled with Mr Gowon. He also did something which I found impressing. He went to Onitsha, you know the massacre which took place, where civilians were massacred, lined up and shot.
When he learnt about it, he made a trip to Onitsha and went and apologised to the people. You see in war time, all kinds of things happen, some of them which make humanity ashamed. When those things happened and you are in charge and then you learnt about it and you are humble enough and humane enough to go back and try to make amends, I found it impossible to hold anything against you.
His views on returning to the world again as a Nigerian
You have asked a question that beholds me at my age to answer with utmost truth, a question that requires a lot of reflection. There are certain things I know I will miss, if possible and I come back somewhere else. Basically, I think I would prefer to be a member of a smaller, more manageable country. Nigeria is a problematic enclave. I can tell you that if the condition of my coming back into the world is that most of the people in this area should also come back, I will say please send me back. I will rest peacefully, if I could die knowing I never knew those characters that have infested this nation we call Nigeria. It is a place that has been degraded by the quality of people who seems to be the most active, to have managed to push themselves into roles of leadership. They created a character called Nigeria character, very embarrassing on many levels.
His saddest and happiest period
The word happy is what I use very sparingly. I will like to substitute that with the most contended moment or period of my existence.
I would certainly count among the most fulfilled moment, when I found it possible to return to the country after a period of exile and I could come back.
One of the saddest moments of my life, which I recognised during Abacha’s rule, was the moment when I stood at the bank of a river which I crossed to escape in the bush in a part of Iseyin, Oyo State, because I have sworn I will never be driven into exile again. But it was necessary, you know. That moment was one of the saddest of my life.
Lessons learnt from his travels
There is no way you travelled and you don’t make comparison. One comparison you make most of the time makes you wonder why it is impossible for the nation you belong to advance. We started from the same starting bloc as a number of Asian countries and if you visited those countries today, it is a marvel and you wonder if it really is possible for society to have deteriorated to this level, to remain unproductive. Every moment I go out, people think I enjoy junketing. No; I go out to earn my living, pursue my profession.
His assessment of the nation’s democracy since 1999
My candid assessment is that democracy is still far away. Genuine democracy is not just election. This country has been there before, when you could actually say this is a democratic society. But the military experience has distorted things. Today, governors behave like military administrators. Some of them murdered more people than Sanni Abacha did. Elections are approaching and riggers realised it’s going to be more difficult to rig; so, they are doing pre-emptive rigging, kidnapping opponents and only releasing them after the candidate has accepted to stand down. In my own state, Ogun State, Dipo Dina was killed; today the police has not announced a single breakthrough.
This is a governorship candidate. Democracy is already maimed. Look at elected officers, they wanted to be return unopposed automatically. Many of the sensitive positions are still manned by former military men who changed their regalia and rigged into the positions. The President of Senate, who was never elected, is a former military man.
The rejection of Ibrahim Babangida’s candidature by some northern politicians
I don’t think it is just the Northern caucus which rejected Mr Babangida. I think the whole nation rejected Mr Babangida from the very beginning. What Mr Babangida thinks he is doing by insisting on coming back to rule this country, I do not understand. But it is unfortunate that such an intelligent person, it is a pity that he would have allowed some individuals to have persuaded him that he can return to rule this country. And each time you point it out, his gang of sycophants, (abobaku) leave the subject alone and turn on the speaker. You see, after you publish this, they would come out. You will see them, the subject becomes Wole Soyinka. But Wole Soyinka will still continue to say the truth.
The disruption of his recent initiative to resolve the political crisis in Ogun State
When I read in the newspapers that some loyalists of Gbenga Daniel tried to disrupt the meeting, the word loyalists is wrong. It should have been some Gbenga Daniel mercenaries tried to disrupt the meeting. They did everything possible to disrupt the meeting and that was what they intend to do. We received very reliable report on what they wanted to do, and so I wrote a letter to the Commissioner of Police and delivered it to him and sent a copy to Inspector General of Police to let them know that there were plans to violently make sure the meeting did not take place. In addition to the police coming, I also engaged a security outfit from the night before. So, they were in the hall to check that nothing is planted to incriminate people. When I say they are mercenaries of Gbenga Daniel, I know what I am saying. I have a full tape from beginning to the end. Not only that, it seems I missed the best part of my own show which I regretted, because I would have loved to watch it. After I left, a fight broke out among some of these mercenaries in the sharing of the loot. Gbenga Daniel should be man enough to admit that he sent these people to disrupt the meeting. He should stop hiding under women’s skirt and come out boldly. It is a great pity, and I am sad because he lost a great opportunity. All we wanted to do, the target is how to provide Ogun State with title of gateway to democracy. The question which we wanted to solve is how to re-open the Ogun State House of Assembly. That assembly belongs to Ogun citizens. It does not belong to an individual.
Intractability of the problem
This is the question which will not go away. Before the start of the president’s book reading programme, I sat in camera with the president.I said, ‘what is happening in Ogun State is a disgrace. It brings shame to any pretence to democratic government. Get the House of Assembly open, make sure those who go there are protected. An individual or cabal cannot shut the House of Assembly. It means democracy had been terminated in Ogun State. It means Ogun is being run by a sole administrator who is free to do anything he wants, including disruption of democratic meetings. This has been going on since September. I told the President, how can you allow this to go on for so long? Let me add something which all Nigerians should be reminded of about this crisis. One of the groups challenged the governor to a debate on the issue of bond, the whole nation was agog waiting for this debate once the governor had accepted. I think on the eve of the debate, the assembly was shut, a majority was sacked by the minority. The debate never took place, but even the shutting of the assembly which is, to me criminal enough, does not prevent the debate. So, a crude, vulgar attempt was made to make sure it did not happen, so where is freedom of expression in Ogun State?
His request at the Town Hall meeting that he wanted to be buried in Abeokuta
Haa! That will be a private matter. Everything is so written in my will. But if I die before democracy is restored in Ogun State and now that you asked that question, I think I better go and put a codeism to my will. If I died before democracy is restored in Ogun State, I think I might add to my will that I should either be kept on ice or temporarily buried somewhere else in Nigeria.
His thinking on religiosity of Nigerians
First of all, you said I don’t go to church. That is not true. From time to time, events take place which take me to church. I have nothing against the churches, I have nothing against mosques. I have nothing against temples, against shrines. I am a very different person. You know, I am not a religious person. In other words, I don’t go around worshipping, observing calendars.
But, sometimes, I share with others their own religious seasons and why not, its all part of human quest for a meaning of one outside sect. But if you say do I belief as Christians or Muslims do, no I do not. I believe that as spiritual extension of all, that can take any form. I like to go deep inside myself and carry out certain... and that satisfies me. So, I don’t worry myself going to church on Sundays, going to Mosque of Fridays or going to Seventh Day Adventist. I also believe that religion or spirituality is a personal thing.
How he treats his hair
Oh! barbing saloon. Oh! I carry my barbing saloon with me. I have a good comb, and the comb take off some in the process and that is my daily help out.
I don’t treat it at all. I don’t have time for that. If am in an open boat, or I go in the wind, you need to see it, just scatter all over the place. And when I swim, you want to see. You know I don’t treat my hair at all, it just take all kind of wild form to scare people...
Withdrawal from public life
I have been announcing it serially, I am withdrawing from public life. I have to concentrate on a number of things. It is something that has been going on in my mind for years. When Desmond Tutu did that, I say I have people to point to, to say they have shown the way. So, my date to retire from public life is coming very soon. This interview will be my last interview.
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